Athletic Republic 6 Bike Fits – Feb 19 & 20, 2011

Melanie
Left 10 degrees varus 2 CWs
Right 10 degrees varus 3 CWs
Superfeet          5 CWs

Joseph
Left 9 degrees varus 3 CWs & 1 ITS
Right 15 degrees varus 3 CWs & 1 ITS – needs a shorter spindle
6 CWs – 2 ITS = 8 Wedges

Tommy
Left 6 degrees varus 2 CWs & 1 ITS 3 - 1/2 longer spindle
Right 4 degrees varus 2 CWs & 1 ITS 3 - 1/4 longer spindle
Superfeet      4 CWs – 2 ITS = 6 Wedges

Mark
Left 10 degrees varus 2 CW – wider stance width left
Right 7 degrees varus 2 CW
Superfeet           4 CWs

Katie
Left 7 degrees varus 2 CWs – 1/8 shorter spindle
Right 6 degrees varus 1 CW
Speedplay Extender plates
Superfeet              3 CWs

Kyle
Left mild varus   1 CW - 2 x3mm (6mm total) LLshims -Removed other brand in shoe wedge
Right mild varus 2 CWs -Removed other brand in shoe wedge
Replace other brand LL shims   3 CW

Total wedges installed = 29 (all varus, 25 CW & 4 ITS) average number of wedges per person 4.8 This is close to average number of wedges used in most good bike fits. The use of ITS type wedges is also about average. Remember the CW is almost always the primary wedge
2 – three mm Leg Shims where used
3 of the fits displayed a wider left stance width and only one had more narrower left stance – in general 3 to 4 of every 6 cyclists would have a wider left stance.

Do you use a similar amount of wedges? If not do you know why?

Tim Tilton from Texas leading the discussing about the previous bike fit in the class.

4 Bike Fits Nov 14 & 15

Students - Richard Raley and Thomas Cody
Instructor - Tony Corke

David
Left 17 degree varus 3 varus CWs
Right 22 degrees varus 3 varus CWs

Tom
Left 12 degrees varus 3 varus CWs
Right 15 degrees varus 3 varus CWs plus 2 LLshims
Added Speedplay extender plates

Cory
Left 2 varus CWs ½ longer spindle
Right 1 varus CW ½ longer spindle

Beth
Left 1 V V 1 Varus Cleat 1CW
Right 1 V V 1 Varus Cleat 2 CWs

Total Varus wedges 20 – average # of wedges per fit = 5

Wider stance or longer spindles would have been more but one fit was on Keos and the stance could not be properly addressed

No - ITS wedges

Are your numbers similar? If not why?

general re-cap

4 Bike Fits Auburn AL - October 8th

Average # of wedges required was just over 2 per foot.

Left 2 varus Cleat Wedges - 1 single stack
Right 2 varus Cleat Wedges
Left foot lined up wider than right

Left   2 Varus Cleat Wedges –
Right 3 Varus Cleat Wedges, 2 LL shims (3mm) and 1 single stack
Left foot lined up wider than right

Arrived with 2 BG shims per foot
Left   2 ITS Wedges
Right 2 ITS Wedges
Compared BG shims and ITS wedges back and forth – cyclist preferred the feeling of the ITS Wedges.
Need to add a Cleat Wedge or two (if two then reduce the ITS by one). Cyclist was using Crank Brothers cleats and pedals and we did not have a shoe shield to be able to put a Cleat Wedges under the sheild.
Stance width was about equal

Left  2  Varus Cleat Wedges
Right 2 Varus Cleat Wedges
Slightly wider left stance

3 of 4 cyclists displayed wider left stance
ITS was preferred in back and forth comparison.
2 cyclists required a shim

Do your fits compare to this?

The BikeFit Tour – South East

Friday – BikeFit Demos – Auburn, AL.
October 8th at “The Bike Shop” in downtown Auburn, AL
Friday afternoon is an easy group ride with many of the “Has Beens” starting at 2pm
Fit schedule – 9am fit, 10:45 am fit, 2pm ride, 4pm fit
If you would like more information e-mail Brian@BikeFit.com
No charge to watch and ask questions – come join us.

Results of a Group Fitting this Weekend

I was in Portales, New Mexico this weekend fitting a group of 11 riders from the area.
Here are the numbers on wedges and 20 mm pedal spacers used for these fits.

A total of 41 cleat spacers were used. 12 on the left and 29 on the right.
A total of 6 -  20 mm pedal spacers were used -  4 on the left and 2 on the right.
Two riders needed a leg length shim due to previous fractures of the hip.
One rider needed +1/2 speedplay zero pedals bilaterally.
Also, almost half the riders need shorter stems, although the actual number is much higher because many of the other riders had already gone to a shorter stem.
Also, 4 of the riders needed a compact handle bar so they could use the drop bar position comfortably.

Paul and Andrew have asked for posts on details about what is being used during fits so thought I would post some of my results from this group.

Michael Irwin    BikeFit Pro
http://www.bicyclefitrx.com/

Leg Length Discrepancies - Are they common?

The question is how common are leg length discrepancies? So far this week I have seen a 70% of fits requiring the use of leg length shims. I want to thank Steve Hogg for thinking out of the box and making a solution to address this common problem. What do I look for and what does jump out? What really jumps out is how uneven the saddle is; one side is usually more compressed/lower than the other.

In the even the saddle is brand new the other clue I look for is leg extension ... especially when the saddle is new and the client is complaining about lateral lower back pain and or hip pain.
While the Gmeter is marked with a nice green area indicating the range for an ideal saddle height, when the difference is 5 or more degrees I start to thinking about a possible discrepancy.

Testing the assumption is easy; just put a leg length shim under the shoe and ask for feedback. The words you can hear a client scream or utter are " ... I feel even and balanced" or "I feel as I am not reaching as much now" or "I went out for a long ride and for the first time my lower right back and hip has not hurt" or "I am now feeling the same amount of pressure on the saddle !" One client this week had such a good feeling of being balanced that he said "maybe now I can ride without my hands as I have never been able to do so because my bike would veer to the right!" which then led me to think why did he not mention this during the pre-fit interview?

Let's hear how you test for leg length discrepancy on the bike!


Wedge average count thus far this week: 15 wedges in 4 fits = 3.75 wedges/fit

Orthotics - where is the value?

Last week I met with Anthony who called the office looking for someone to fine tune his bike position as he kept experiencing knee pain in spite of a previous bike fit. Interestingly enough is that he recently got a new set of orthotics and was instructed to do so for his cycling shoes every year.....to address his knee pain. On his last visit to the doctor's office, the saddle height was changed (+5mm), however the 9 year old issue of knee pain still persisted. I was skeptical about tackling this fit because he had been to a Bay Area doctor that helps many cyclists with the fit issues and he had seen by one of the Bay Area's most experienced fitters (and most expensive) both of whom could not solve his issue. Furthermore this bike fitter also taught at Serotta's SICI ... the pressure was on!



As you can see in the photo knee over tow alignment was completely off and neither the doctor nor the previous fitter measured his feet with the FFMD (http://bikefit.com/docs/FFMD.pdf ) or a similar tool! Once I saw his initial position on the bike I knew I had my work cut-out for me.
With a 17 degree and 9 degree (L/R) varus measurement and one knee tracking to the inside and the other outside of the toe line I was glad I had my Speedplay pedal kit available. His tracking was so bad on the right leg that the laser did not even come close to the patella and his knee was not stable at all throughout the pedal stroke. In addition Anthony displayed lot of inward heel rotation which had forced him to install 20mm pedal extenders a few years back. Lastly Anthony rides Specialized BG shoes which should help with their varus built into the sole ...
After close to 2.5 hours of work these are the major changes made to Anthony's fit:
Right Shoe: 2 ITS wedges, 4 cleat wedges, removed the 20mm pedal spacer and set him up with a + 1/4 pedal and moved the foot as far in as possible.
Left Shoe: 2 cleat wedges, a 3mm leg length shim and -1/8 pedal.
Seat position: brought seat forward about 8mm
Hoods: moved R & L hood inward about 10 degrees.
Handlebar: moved handlebar up a few degrees so the hoods/bar created a straight line/contact area for a more neutral wrist position!
Since Anthony was going to go for a ride the following day I gave him a few pointers in the event he would experience some discomfort with the extreme (but necessary) changes made. We are not always sure how the nervous and muscular systems will respond.

Here is what he had to say after the first ride:
"The bike fit is amazing. My bike has never felt this comfortable under me. I had no knee pain. It's the first time in a long while that my speed was entirely dictated by leg fatigue, instead of in part by knee pain. Thank you so much for an excellent fit.
My buddy and I did about 33 miles around Old La Honda, Skyline, and Page Mill. Came up to about 3400 feet of climbing. We pushed pretty hard."
The moral of the story is threefold: never be afraid to tackle a bikefit that was previously done by published experts in the field, never assume that an orthodic is the correct way for someone to adjust fit issues and use as many wedges as needed to get the tracking under control.
I have also realized that many BG shoes I have fitted in the last few months do not appear to have the varus tilt that is claimed. I am still wedging the BG shoes as if they were just plain neutral shoes; maybe their manufacturing tolerances are off because I certainly cannot explain the need for some many wedges on a shoes that supposedly is built to account for 1.5mm of varus tilt.
During my follow-up visit this week we will attempt to remove the custom orthodics and ride with the cycling specific SuperFeet ... Stay tuned!
TOTAL WEDGES USED: 8
Andrew

Leg Length article by one of our BikeFit Pros - Julian

http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/article/technique-how-to-deal-with-different-length-legs-25018

for more about Julian  http://www.cyclefit.co.uk/

Leg Length - To Shim or not to Shim?

It is not every day I really see obvious leg length issues. However, anytime someone comes to us and says they have this issue, I ask several questions to absolutely make sure. I prefer to have many signs showing the issue so I can build a case before adding a Leg Length Shim of any size.


This person presented one of the most obvious cases I have seen in some time. So just for kicks in our training we decided to look at this from all sorts of views. One of the views we had the cyclist stand against the wall. We projected a laser line direct splitting his legs in half and upward past his head. You will see most people try to get their head back to center. Here his head indeed does that but it is not even close to being centered.

It can be interesting to look at people and seeing how symmetrical or balanced they appear to be. This cyclist pedaled for over 20 years without a Leg Length Shim. For the first time had a heel lift put in his walking shoes only a few weeks prior to these photos (standing photos are without his heel lift).



Here is his Leg Length shim in white - LL Shim complements of Steve Hogg - we like to call the Hogg shims "Hoggies"
Here are the notes from this bike fit. Some of the buzz words he used during the major changes in his fit were: WOW - CENTERED -EVEN

When you hear these comments and buzz words in a bike fit you know you are going in the right direction!

Happy Pedals